Don't Take Advice from a Habsburg
(thedial.world)79 points by lermontov 8 days ago | 87 comments
sickofparadox 4 days ago | root | parent |
A true patron of the modern arts. He seems quite pleasant based on every interaction I've seen on twitter.
moomin 4 days ago | root | parent |
I’m reminded of the thesis of “Parasite”: that niceness is a privilege those on the breadline cannot afford.
prewett 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
Boy, the guy can't win. If he's rude, he's an entitled rich jerk. If he's kind, he's got "privilege". It's pretty tiring to have everything be about oppressing the poor, it's kind like taking a conversation hostage. Well, now that we've brought up the breadline, the conversation can't not talk about that important issue.
DrNosferatu 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
That’s the problem of choosing the public identity he did: it’s a choice he didn’t have to make.
michaelmrose 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
He's a buffoon without value or virtue. An ambassador who doesn't speak the language of the folks he represents. A writer sharing the contents of his empty head like a curator leading a tour of an empty museum.
He doesn't need us to defend him nor does he particularly deserve a defense.
labster 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Agreed that the criticism is unfair, I’ve heard him interviewed and he’s a genuine-seeming nice guy. But getting Victor Orbán to write the foreword to the book is plenty to make me worry about his sense of entitlement.
zpeti 4 days ago | root | parent |
You know you can actually like people with different political views to yourself.
I think Zizek is a super nice guy, despite disagreeing with 90% of what he says. I still think he's a great person with a nice soul.
timeon 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
I think intentionally spreading obvious lies, like Orban does, is not about `different political views`.
I have same view as you in your second paragraph. But let's not put everything on same level. This is the danger of this era. I respect different political views I do not agree with. I do not respect populist's manipulation.
watwut 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Orban is not a great person with a nice soul. And political disagreement in here is massive euphemism designed to make him sound better then he is.
sickofparadox 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
I think that the people in the breadline would have better things to do than be rude on twitter. Or maybe not, it is a fun way to pass the time for some.
morkalork 4 days ago | root | parent |
If you're in the breadline, hobbies and other idle time activities cost money in comparison to twitter that is "free". Don't be surprised the rhetoric is toxic like 4chan and its hordes of basement dwelling NEETs.
majormajor 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Niceness in a tweet doesn't cost much.
Passing time and getting entertainment from being an asshole to random people is super cheap compared to many alternatives, though.
bee_rider 4 days ago | root | parent |
He’s an influencer. The tweets might cost much; he’s probably got a PR guy to write them.
paleotrope 5 days ago | prev | next |
I recently fell down a wikipedia rabbit hole and found the interesting story of Archduke Wilhelm of Austria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Wilhelm_of_Austria
It was interesting to read about the diverse opinions of the different parts of the Hapsburg.
ASalazarMX 3 days ago | root | parent | next |
While I don't approve the principles of royalty and nobility, the Habsburg family has a special place in my heart because Mexico executed our second emperor, Maximilian I, in the 19th century. Seems like he was a good guy, but he failed to realize how fragile his conservative support was, which he lost when he resonated with liberal ideals.
PhasmaFelis 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
"Unemployed landowner" is a pretty funny job status.
jjeaff 4 days ago | root | parent |
We have a lot of those today. We just call them Landlords.
jazzyjackson 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
Boo. Every landlord I ever had was retired, working full time to earn enough to buy second properties, or were a management company, so the landlord there is actually a CEO of a property management firm.
If there's somebody renting property without doing any work they're probably better characterized as a slumlord.
morkalork 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
Last two landlords I've had were ReMax agents. Felt kinda dirty, like they were exploiting the real estate game a bit. They were in a very knowledgeable position in the market vs everyone else.
PhasmaFelis 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
There's a lot more slumlords than you may realize. Plenty of scummy property management firms, too. I suspect they far outnumber your nice guy landlords.
Kind of depressing that the grandparent comment got people angry enough to flag it into oblivion. Leave it to HN to stand up for the big guy, I guess.
morkalork 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Not landed gentry?
surfingdino 4 days ago | root | parent |
aka. proper landlords
itronitron 5 days ago | prev | next |
I can recommend the book "Vanished Kingdoms: The History of Half-Forgotten Europe" for anyone wanting to inoculate themselves against survivorship bias.
airstrike 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
While we're at it I recommend The persistence of the Old Regime by Arno Mayer
https://www.versobooks.com/products/2155-the-persistence-of-...
greesil 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Well many of these kingdoms existed until WW1, then not so much.
gerikson 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
I've read the book. Prussia was the last one to go, finally extinguished in the wake of WW2.
4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
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motohagiography 5 days ago | prev | next |
Highly recommend any of the interviews or podcasts Eduard Habsburg has done. He seems very pleasant and reasonable. the author's tone is typical of what writers must do to get published these days, and it makes me wonder how some people would justify themselves without nobility or goodness as a foil.
take away what Habsburg recommends (family, religion, ownership, traditional values that built a dynasty, etc) and what are you left with as far as advice for a good life? middling status eating disorders and yoni sunning from what i can tell. it's good to take advice from people who win, and his family has been in that business for quite some time. it's probably worth a listen.
currymj 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
but nobody has to pick between “the worst manifestation of counterculture” and “traditionalist monarchism”. you can have a whole range of normal political views instead.
MrBuddyCasino 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
That’s just the thing. It seems like we can’t.
4 days ago | root | parent |
[deleted]
zpeti 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Yes, but the author of the article doesn't do that either. Everything is dismissed as ridiculous and old fashioned. Which is also just silly. Not rebelling or rebelling against everything are both bad paths. You need to realise some things you ancestors got right, and some things they got wrong.
As OP says the fashionable thing in media seems to be "dismiss absolutely anything that even faintly resembles old fashioned values as idiotic"
timeon 4 days ago | root | parent |
> Yes, but the author of the article doesn't do that either
So why are you doing the same?
WD-42 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
He did an interview about this book on the podcast “The Rest Is History” which has become one of my favorite podcasts of all time. This particular episode was really funny. They ask him a few tough questions too:
Interviewer: “Ok but your family wasn’t really great to the people of Peru”
Habsburg: “We were learning.”
danans 4 days ago | root | parent |
> Interviewer: “Ok but your family wasn’t really great to the people of Peru”
> Habsburg: “We were learning.”
I don't know what they did to the people of Peru, but if it follows the general pattern of crimes committed against colonized peoples, that is one hell of a euphemism.
And it seems intentionally morally vague, since it's not clear from that statement what it is that they learned.
tdeck 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
> it's good to take advice from people who win, and his family has been in that business for quite some time.
There's a reason the Habsburg Empire isn't around anymore.
saagarjha 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
I'm sorry middling status eating disorders and what
throwawaymaths 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
For men, testicle sunning (it's a bit of a meme)
jazzyjackson 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Yonic is the opposite of phallic, congrats on being one of today's 10,000
For it's use in a sentence, see the very fun cover of "come on petunia" by the blow:
Jamie stood on the stoop
and he challenged his homies
to go get some girlfriends
and locate their yonis
watwut 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
> traditional values that build a dynasty
This hides quote a lot of awful, cruel, selfish and unfair. You don't build monasty by being nice. Dynasties are possible only due to little stuff like massacres and human rights violation, belief that you are more entitled then others.
When you remove religion, traditional values that build monasty you get awful lot of great people who help other, who are nice, who work to create better world. And if you remove family you get the same except more lonely.
What eating disorders have with any of that is mysterious, since that is a disease of perfectionist girls with bad handling of fear. They are typically girls who try to please people.
GJim 4 days ago | root | parent |
That's some chip you have on your shoulder my friend!
watwut 3 days ago | root | parent |
Really? Cause if you read history, dynasty builders are not distinguished by some moral superiority. That is just not how it ever worked.
It is power struggle. You build and keep it by playing power well and pripritizing power. It does not mean you cant have other values as well, but this is deciding factor.
1-more 5 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Wait what? How has his family been winning for quite some time?
throwaway48540 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
Well, they ruled for nearly 1000 years. The last 100 years might just be a fluke local minima and they still might recover and rule the galaxy...
1-more 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
Classic problem. Gotta tweak the inputs in a big way to see if you can't get out of the trough. Perfect time for him to become something fun and interesting like maybe an unironic Posadist or one of the weirder sedevacantists.
foobarian 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
You assume that they haven't ruled the last 100 years as well
sickofparadox 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
He's able to get by on his family name, which is a marked downgrade from their long rule over most of Europe, seems to have set him up a fairly comfortable and easy-going life. That sounds like winning to me! If my country needs a new ambassador to the Pope, I'll be first in line!
1-more 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
Rare praise for cushy government jobs and low aspirations on HN. I'm here for it, don't get me wrong!
MichaelZuo 4 days ago | root | parent |
Since when was attaining the rank of ambassador and being appointed to the Vatican ‘low aspirations’?
Even the lowliest ambassador enjoys some authority, and much higher formal rank, than pretty much every non-unicorn startup founder.
082349872349872 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
In the days of Franz Joseph Karl, Habsburgs didn't get ambassadorial appointments; they gave them.
1-more 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
Ambassador to a country with no currency or trade or airport. In the US it’s a meme that political donors get to be ambassador to one of the easy countries. Doesn’t get much easier than the Vatican.
sulandor 4 days ago | root | parent |
> a country with no currency or trade or airport
though more involvement in international affairs than a lot of countries with all of the above
1-more 2 days ago | root | parent |
Involvement? They pledge their zero troops and threaten to withhold their zero dollars of trade? Maybe restrict movement over their zero square miles of air space? Is it early modern period day on HN what is going on????
bee_rider 4 days ago | root | parent | prev | next |
It is a relative downgrade, in the sense that Europe was a lot worse of a place to live in the past. But I’m not sure, I think I’d rather be a rich guy in modern Europe than some king. If you are a rich guy in modern Europe:
* You get modern medical care
* Fancy cars
* Killing you isn’t a major political objective for a bunch of different countries
* You can probably hang out with American celebrities if they have the time
* Better food
1-more 2 days ago | root | parent |
By that token most people who have ever had the title of King, Shah, Emperor, Chief, Bwana, Pharoah, etc. would trade me my weight in gold to enjoy my flea-free mattress and working refrigerator.
ilkke 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
His recipe for winning: be born into the Habsburg family
jeffreyrogers 4 days ago | prev | next |
Here is a review by someone who liked the book: https://theworthyhouse.com/2024/08/14/the-habsburg-way-seven...
tptacek 4 days ago | root | parent |
So this guy is a character:
https://theworthyhouse.com/2021/06/17/the-foundationalist-ma...
Thus, the iron core of Foundationalism is that it opposes autonomic liberalism, and plans to destroy it as Foundationalism’s first act. Only when the Enlightenment, political philosophy based on false claims of wholesale human emancipation from all unchosen bonds, is both gone and wholly discredited is a new thing possible, for if not, the serpent will whisper his sweet lies in men’s ears forever, keeping them fixed in the dream become nightmare.
It'd be interesting to work out what the differences are between the philosophy described by these "pillars" and according-to-Payne Fascism.
082349872349872 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
a cursory search on Payne's def'n turns up "a program for national rebirth based on a primarily vitalist philosophy, extreme elitism, mass mobilization, the promotion of violence, and military virtues."
The last 4 are certainly in keeping with undoing human emancipation from unchosen bonds, but I'm not sure what "vitalist philosophy" might mean.
another cursory search yields "Vitalism, as a philosophical position, is usually tied to the assumption that there is a fundamental difference between the organic and the inorganic, between the physical forces and the “life force”"; anyone know if (a) Payne is referring to that, and (b) if so, what the Foundationalist position may be?
tptacek 4 days ago | root | parent |
Vitalism is the establishment of a culture that seeks to create a "new man", prizing "courage, daring, and the overcoming of previously established limits". Which is literally one of the pillars (actually, the pillar that me off) of so-called "foundationalism".
082349872349872 4 days ago | root | parent |
5/5 then. Maybe we need an "Atticism", parodying foundationalism in similar ways to Roderick Spode's Saviours of Britain?
jdougan 2 days ago | root | parent | prev |
You don't see a lot of honest-to-betsy aristocratic reactionaries, but Charles Haywood is definitely one. Makes Yarvin look like a dabbler.
atoav 4 days ago | prev | next |
One of my favourite bits of trivia about Austrian law is that it is still defacto forbidden for a member of the Habsburg family to run for the Presidency. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg_Law
The Austrian president has mostly a representative/safeguarding function and currently held by a chain-smoking former Professor who was a member of the green party.
082349872349872 8 days ago | prev | next |
> given the counterrevolutionary legacy of the Habsburg dynasty
Might the Habsburgs have weathered 28 June 1914 any better if they'd only been a little less Bourbon during 1848?
bee_rider 5 days ago | root | parent |
They seem basically comfortable now, which I guess is about as much as they could have hoped for in the era of liberal democracies. Whatever little details fell out of their court games, their hard power wasn’t going to survive contact with the brutal grinding power of the giant industrial meritocracy behind a big moat.
jowea 4 days ago | root | parent |
Half of Europe is still monarchies, I don't think it was inevitable that they would lose all their thrones.
bee_rider 4 days ago | root | parent |
Decorative monarchs, sort of like American celebrities and influencers but without the acting chops.
surfingdino 4 days ago | root | parent | next |
They ceded their powers to their family office managers who rule by proxy, both tending to the inherited wealth and investing it so that they can live without having to do any work.
082349872349872 4 days ago | root | parent |
There may be a slight gap between being emperors (motto: AEIOU "the whole world is under austria") and having a family office.
bee_rider 4 days ago | root | parent |
To be fair, rich or upper middle class European is probably actually a better gig than old-timey king from when they were in charge, hah. No countries want to kill them as a major political objective anymore, the creature comforts produced by modern industrialized societies are incredible if you can afford them, and even the nobility in a feudal system has bunch of stupid rules they have to follow, which we’ve just thrown out in liberal democracies.
jowea a day ago | root | parent | next |
That made me realize something, those "stupid rules", specifically the ones about what is an appropriate marriage, are the reason the probably most well known Habsburg was in a modern convertible car on his last day.
082349872349872 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
> stupid rules they have to follow
A belief in that speech in the Iliad which justifies getting the best portion of everything at home because of one's willingness to stand in the van overseas being one example of a custom/rule which proved exceptionally stupid in the years leading up to 11 Nov 1918.
stefantalpalaru 4 days ago | root | parent | prev |
[dead]
rurban 4 days ago | prev | next |
Nit: Their legal family name in Austria really is Habsburg-Lothringen. A double name. "von" was forbidden after WW1, so they replaced the von with a -.
A good friend of mine is a real Habsburg-Lothringen. From a poor farmers branch of the family.
eadmund 2 days ago | prev | next |
The snarky article inspired me to purchase the book!
AmericanChopper 4 days ago | prev | next |
The article takes an awfully long time to get to the point, but as far as I can tell it’s “this guy is religious and conservative and that’s bad”.
surfingdino 4 days ago | prev | next |
I guess the dreams of the past glory times never die for those families. Best keep them well-removed from the levers of power.
hello_computer 5 days ago | prev | next |
[flagged]
colechristensen 4 days ago | root | parent |
This really isn't the kind of tone appreciated around here.
hello_computer 4 days ago | root | parent |
If you close your eyes and really reflect on it for a moment, I think you will realize that that tone is quite welcome here. The flag was not for the tone, but for the direction it came from, and I wear it proudly. It is HN's loss, not mine. This Hapsburg fellow seems quite likable, but he has the wrong politics, so she had to break out the toxoplasmosis claws as though her career depended on it (it does)! meeoww hissss
AnimalMuppet 4 days ago | root | parent |
No, the flag is for the tone. Disagree with substance all you want. Don't write like a troll. Don't attack people personally. There are lots of other places you can do that; don't do it here.
hello_computer 4 days ago | root | parent |
Don't attack people personally? And you say this when the story itself is a back-hand masquerading as a book review / history lesson (72 points and counting)? Or by "tone" do you mean that I neglected to spread the attack out over 2400+ words, and research her ancestry back to the 18th century for any shred of "privilege" we may sully her with?
AnimalMuppet 4 days ago | root | parent |
If you don't think the original article was appropriate, flag it. But don't stoop to its level.
science4sail 5 days ago | prev |
I sure hope that this modern-day Habsburg isn't promoting royal incest, otherwise you end up with fine specimens like this guy:
lrkrsBlurkn 4 days ago | root | parent |
[dead]
morkalork 5 days ago | next |
Was wondering if the article was about this guy, and it is!
https://x.com/hop_scotch_/status/1664017656926687234?lang=en